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Summary

My guest, AJ Sherrill, discusses spiritual disciplines for every Enneagram type, what he calls upstream and downstream disciplines. I respect and admire AJ for being a pioneer in this area, finding innovative ways to blend the Enneagram and spirituality together, and I think you will too by the end of this episode.

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📑 FREE PDF Download: Spiritual Growth Series Podcast Notes
Get the bullet-point notes for all 6 episodes—key insights, no fluff, easy to revisit.

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Spiritual Growth Series

🎙️ Episodes in the Spiritual Growth Series

• Spiritual Identity, Idealized Self, and Avoidance Patterns | Lisa Vischer (Ep. 7)
• Spiritual Practices for Each Enneagram Type | Pastor A.J. Sherrill (Ep. 8)
• How Each Enneagram Type Relates to God | Lindsey Lewis (Ep. 9)
• Image of God in Each Enneagram Type | Marilyn Vancil (Ep. 10)
• What Every Type Wants & What They Settle For | Jesse Eubanks (Ep. 11)
• Enneagram Vices and Virtues | Hunter Mobley (Ep. 12)

The Guest

👉🏼 Follow AJ Sherrill:

https://www.ajsherrill.org/ 

40-Day Enneagram Devotional

📚 Get a personalized devotional for your Enneagram type:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08VGPJTX6

Read The Transcript

Tyler Zach (00:20)

Welcome to Typish, an Enneagram podcast where we explore how your personality shows up in all of life. I'm your host Tyler Zach, and in each episode I connect you with leading experts on how your personality impacts your relationships, mental health, spirituality, and everything in between.

The Typish summits I host include speakers and attendees from all kinds of faith traditions and backgrounds. But because I started my Enneagram journey as a pastor and wrote a 40-day devotional for every Enneagram type, I have a large Christian audience — and the topic of spiritual growth is the number one request I get. So for the next six weeks, I'm digging into the vault and sharing six conversations from my Gospel for Enneagram Summit back in 2023.

If you'd like the bullet point notes for this episode and all six episodes in this series, you can grab them right now by clicking the link in the show notes and downloading the free PDF as a gift.

Today my guest is Pastor and Dr. A.J. Sherrill. He served as lead pastor at Marshill Bible Church in Grand Rapids, Michigan, and is now the lead pastor at St. Peter's Church in Charleston, South Carolina. He has served as adjunct professor at Fuller Theological Seminary, and in the Enneagram community, A.J.'s popular book, The Enneagram for Spiritual Formation, is a highly sought-after resource that I have in my library and highly recommend. He's also the author of a number of other popular books such as Rediscovering Christmas and Being with God.

Our conversation today centers around one of the topics of his Enneagram book: spiritual disciplines for every Enneagram type — what he calls upstream and downstream disciplines. I respect and admire A.J. for being a pioneer in this area, finding innovative ways to blend the Enneagram and spirituality together. If you want to learn more about A.J. and his writing and speaking work, visit ajsherrill.org. Now without further ado, let's jump in.

Tyler Zach (02:34)

Where and how did you first learn about the Enneagram? This isn't something new for you — you've been studying it for quite a while.

AJ Sherrill (02:41)

Yeah, I've been teaching workshops for seven, ten years now. I first studied it accidentally. I was in a doctorate course with Father Richard Rohr, a long time ago in Albuquerque. One of my friends — Mark Scandrette, who I now teach with at Fuller in the doctorate program — had heard of the Enneagram and I had not. He started asking Richard questions and we got him totally off topic. We spent a half a day just grilling Richard Rohr on the Enneagram, because he had written a book on it ages ago. That was my first experience with it.

And it was so beautiful because it wasn't self-congratulatory. I was at a place in my journey where I just needed resistance — some kind of opposition to say, listen, you need to pay attention to the shadow side of your life. And that's what the Enneagram did for me. It wasn't just behavioral, it was the thing under the thing under the thing. It got to my motives. As a pastor, it's easy to present in certain ways and yet have a really shallow or shadowed inner life. So all that came out. It was a really good journey.

And then I met a woman in Greenwich, Connecticut. I was pastoring in Manhattan at the time. Her name was Suzanne Stabile. A guy named Ian Cron had invited me out to Connecticut to do a workshop with them — before they wrote The Road Back to You. They were sort of beta-testing their material. And I said to Suzanne at a break, "Hey, I'm about to start my dissertation. Has anyone done any work from a Christian perspective on spiritual practices based on your type? Because your type can't be just about knowing your type — you have to work it. You have to develop yourself within that to grow. What do we do with what we know? Is anyone writing on that?" And she said, "To my understanding, for the church, I've not seen that book."

So I had my dissertation. I started doing that work, published it, it got picked up by a publisher, and I just started really speaking and writing. It's been a journey ever since. My journey is really personal — it's not like, "That's cool, let me wield it," which a Three can do. It really shaped me, and it's still giving me a lot of insight about how I need to continue to be shaped to grow into Christ's likeness.

Tyler Zach (04:57)

Before we dive into the spiritual practices, is there anything you want to say about what Christians should pay attention to specifically when it comes to the Enneagram and spiritual formation? How would you frame up the importance of using the Enneagram in that context?

AJ Sherrill (05:18)

Sure. It's not Jesus. I'm not an apologist for it. Some people think it's the Antichrist — if that's what you think, you can have that. It's been super helpful for me, but only because it's a means, not an end. When the Enneagram becomes an end, it can be an idol and kind of a parlor-trick conversation — and that can simultaneously exclude people around you. If people aren't aware of the Enneagram, it can just be a massive turnoff.

So I just tell people: you've got to work your number. It's not about knowing your number. It gives us information about who we are, why we do what we do, and how we might grow. That's what I'm really interested in. I'm more interested in Jesus and pursuing God than I am in the Enneagram. The Enneagram is just a tool that's given me information to do that more precisely.

Tyler Zach (06:08)

That's so good. Where do you start in your book — Type One, or do you start with the heart types or gut types?

AJ Sherrill (06:15)

I love triads, so I'll start with Eight. I think Suzanne Stabile taught me to do that in her workshop. I've noticed that the energy centers are often a great place to help bring themes together. Today we're just talking about some practices, but I'll probably start with Eight anyway.

Tyler Zach (06:32)

Okay. In your book you talk about upstream practices and downstream practices. Can you give people a little orientation on what you mean by that?

AJ Sherrill (06:44)

Yeah. Imagine yourself floating on a lazy river on a raft. Downstream practices are the ones that come naturally for you — you're just sitting there, no work, no resistance. They're things you're naturally prone to want to do as you pursue the presence of God. And then there are things that grate against your personality. I don't connect in that way. I don't connect with people like that, or with nature like that, or with books like that. I'm not cerebral, et cetera. Those are things we have to pay attention to — because sometimes those are the things that actually shape us most.

It's like being in a gym and noticing: I don't like that exercise. And sometimes it's exactly that exercise your body needs most. So I like to invite people to consider not throwing out the downstream things they like, but also paying attention to the upstream things they avoid.

Because the spiritual life — all of life — is integrated. Head, heart, will. The Shema spirituality we get from Deuteronomy is integrated all the way through. We're not just bobbleheads, nor are we just emotive people, nor are we just activists. All of this has to work together in movement toward the kingdom. Practices help us engage all of our being so that we can be formed at every level of who we are.

Tyler Zach (08:10)

Yes, I love it. Okay, do you want to start with Type Eights?

AJ Sherrill (08:15)

Yeah. And let me give a quick anecdote first. I was on a hike with my daughter this weekend and we were looking at waterfalls — not Niagara, more like gentle flowing water over a big rock face. We finally made it about an hour into the clearing and came upon this waterfall. And immediately I just felt like: that's it. That's what I'm trying to say through formation.

Just as a cliff's sharp-edged rocks are slowly smoothed through the constant flow of running water — and the rock was almost shiny — so our sharp-edged souls are constantly smoothed through the constant flow of life experience and spiritual practices. There's something about these practices that helps smooth out the jagged edges of the soul, of the tongue, of the mind — that over time makes us less quick to react, and helps us gain more clarity and live with a deeper intelligence at every level.

So when we talk about practices, we're talking about how we give ourselves in different ways to the presence of God — because it's in the presence that we become formed and shaped. The practices themselves are not the thing; they're just what gets us to the real thing, which is God's presence. Practices without presence is just religion. But what does it mean to practice in such a way that you're allowing God's presence to totally permeate your life? That's where the transformation happens.

Tyler Zach (10:13)

So — Type Eights. Do you want to start?

AJ Sherrill (10:16)

Yeah, let's start with Eights. The fixation for Eights is vengeance. It's easy to get into that place — even an inner bitterness if you're not careful. Your vice can be aggression, but you're also really justice and goal oriented.

Your downstream practice is so obvious: it's that commitment, that doubling-down to say, I am going to contend for the common good, for justice, for what I believe is right in the world. But do it in a way that you don't create unnecessary adversaries along the way. Eights can become so determined in their fight for justice that they can create a lot of unhealthy relationships — it's this goal and we're going to do it and we need to change the system. All beautiful. But realize that other people exist and you need them in the story with you.

Nevertheless, your downstream: keep contending for what is right, good, true, and beautiful — at work, at home, in your neighborhood, wherever that is in the world. We affirm that in you. You lead us so well when it comes to seeing truth and walking in that direction. Take us along for the ride — and be slow to be upset with those of us who maybe aren't as fast as you to see it.

Your upstream practice — the one you'll have to press against — is accountability. Eights are typically powerful people, and because of that they can unintentionally come across as aggressive, or as people who aren't open to other people's voices. That's often not how Eights feel inside, but it's what they project — this amazing strength whose underside is that people don't always feel the freedom to speak truthfully because Eights can be intimidating.

I think it was Suzanne — or maybe it was the Delcarne — who said Eights might be able to count the people who really know them over their lifetime on one hand. So is there someone you can invite to say, "Hey, can you give me some accountability? I'm not always aware when my tone crosses a line, or when I'm emotionally out of control, or when I'm doing XYZ. I want to invite you — without any penalty — to be able to call me to account. You won't be penalized for doing that."

Accountability is really, really good for an Eight, because Eights often have this beautiful inner sensitive soul that has developed an exterior shell that doesn't feel like an invitation for others to give critical feedback. You're going to have to pursue that.

Tyler Zach (13:16)

I love that. All right — let's talk about Nines.

AJ Sherrill (13:20)

The Nine — your fixation is typically daydreaming. A lot of times people put a lot of stuff on you. You're seen as such a resource in the room. Low-energy people — and that's a compliment, by the way. When you walk into a room, you don't make people feel anxious. You're a gift. But your vice is sloth and your virtue is action. And your fixation — where you can get stuck — is that daydreaming thing.

Your downstream practice: I've found that when Nines get stuck in daydreaming, it's really good for them to find time in creation. Nature has a way of reintegrating Nines with who they are and what they're about. It's easy for Nines to lose their vision — they're so busy helping other people navigate their way and keeping everyone together that they forget: what is it that I want? What am I called to? So nature and creation have a restorative and rebalancing power for you. Whether it's something in the mountains, a regular hike, or a stream or pond you sit by, that's a kind of commitment to who you are and what you're about. It also helps you get in touch with your own passion.

Your upstream practice is fixed-hour prayer. Fixed-hour prayer is an invitation to be interrupted — because Nines can get pulled into a thousand things during a day and lose track of what matters most. Fixed-hour prayer — whether it's morning, lunch, and evening, or whatever that looks like — is a way of routinizing times to reintegrate, refocus, and reprioritize. To step back and say, okay Lord, I am yours. Call me to my convictions. Let me not lose my way with all of these things being put on me.

Phyllis Tickle had a beautiful book called The Divine Hours, and she also has a lesser-known book called The Divine Hours: Pocket Edition. I used to keep it by my bedside, and my wife Elena and I would read the prayers out loud together before bed. It was a way of re-centering: what I'm carrying right now, I can let go of, I can give to the Lord and rest in Jesus. I don't have to carry this through the night.

So those are two ways that I think are really helpful for Nines to check in with.

Tyler Zach (15:51)

And Nines are already good with their routines — so if they can implement fixed-hour prayer, it could be a very beautiful habit.

AJ Sherrill (15:58)

It could be the Psalms in the morning, Psalms in the evening. It doesn't have to be a big fancy production. It's just stopping to say, I don't want to lose focus of what I'm really called to. And I think that's a really good practice for a Nine.

For the One — your vice is anger, your virtue is serenity. Your fixation — where you get stuck — is resentment that just builds up. It's really important with fixation for all types: look at your fixation, because it's going to give you all sorts of knowledge about what practices could help alleviate it and develop it into a virtue.

Ones need constant help in letting stuff go, because stuff builds up — people not performing to the level you need, not keeping their commitments, you not feeling like you're as perfect or as good as you should be. All that stuff gets in the way.

The downstream for Ones — and for a very different reason than Nines — is also time in nature. Ones can get in touch with the reality that life is really big and really wild, and it's okay for not everything to be within your control. When you look out at what God has created, a tree is not perfectly symmetric. That branch may not be what you'd like. It helps you get some perspective — maybe life doesn't have to be as curated and perfect as we wish it were. It makes sense of some of the wild chaos in the world.

The upstream for Ones is journaling. Ones can bottle up their resentments and angers and imperfections, and it just kind of sits there. What journaling does is get it out — because you can't change what you can't name. Once it's out of you, it's no longer you. It's this thing right here, this situation, this conflict. That's not who I am. I'm writing it out. This needs to change. I get it. And now I'm differentiating that from my identity.

But here's the thing: when you journal, start with what's working in life rather than what's not. It's really easy for Ones to start with what's not working and what needs to change and improve. Instead, start with something in your life that is working. That kind of gratitude cultivates joy — and that's a very different disposition than relating to everything through the lens of "it's not good enough, it should be better." Yes, you're right about that. But let's start with something that's working and cultivate some joy first. Then we can get to all the rest.

Tyler Zach (19:00)

I love that. Very helpful.

AJ Sherrill (19:02)

The vice of the Two is that subversive pride that masks itself in service. The virtue is humility. It's beautiful when Twos are at peace with who they are — confident in their identity and their resource, they're just flowing. Your fixation can be flattery: you need people to notice and affirm what you did. That's really helpful to think about. What practices might help me ward off that need to be needed and to hear that back?

Your downstream is hospitality. That's super obvious. You have a sixth sense as a Two for knowing where there's need and knowing how to fill it. You can read a room better than anyone emotionally. You can tell who's hurting very quickly, who's thriving very quickly, and you veer toward the need. So whatever hospitality looks like and whatever vein it comes naturally for you — just continue to do that. People see you as such a joy.

The thing I always tell Twos — and I think this might be the most important thing I say in any of my workshops — is: you have to learn to work from love and not for love. When you learn to work from an inner resource — the identity God has given you, which you don't have to prove or earn — you're working from love. You have a resource. You don't need someone to affirm you. It's great when they do, but you don't need it, because you already know who you are. You serve because God has filled you. But when you work for love — doing this with a kind of quid pro quo — that can get into all sorts of mischief. So just pay attention to your motive.

The upstream for Twos is centering prayer. It's super hard to just sit with a sacred word or your breath and allow yourself to be in God's presence without doing anything. Twos like to prioritize doing over being. And sometimes they think that if they do certain things, they can become someone. But in the kingdom of God it's the opposite — Jesus says, I've made you, you are someone, therefore go do the things I've called you to do.

It's that sense of sitting in God's presence at the start or end of your day and saying: I just want to sit with you. I know you don't need me to do anything for you. I don't need to be Martha right now. Mary is the better way right now. I can be Martha later. Let me be Mary in this moment and sit at your feet.

Thomas Keating is so good on this — Open Heart, Open Mind is excellent. And I'd also say: I think the types that most need contemplative spirituality — learning to center, slow down, take solitude and stillness — are types One through Nine. All nine types need contemplative prayer. Particularly Type Two, who really needs to learn to be before doing.

Tyler Zach (22:16)

All nine types need contemplative spirituality. I love that.

AJ Sherrill (22:20)

All nine. Some people have said, oh, certain types don't need that because they're inner critics. Got it. Then they need to figure out what to do with that. Every type needs to sit in the presence of God. Jesus did it — he was constantly leaving crowds, he was in the wilderness for 40 days. What do we think he was doing? Just talking the whole time? He was in the presence of God. Stillness, silence, solitude. Super helpful to put that into your day.

Let's move on to Three. Our fixation is vanity — projection, presentation, all of that stuff is under the metric of success. Identity can get really woven in there. Our vice is deceit. So think about what practices are going to help me be honest, be vulnerable, and not hide or present something.

Your downstream is anything cataphatic — meaning sensory, experiential learning. You're growing in your knowledge, growing in your capacity, growing in your strengths. Goal orientation, a 365-day reading plan, working through a series of books by Dallas Willard, whatever. And then you're teaching or exercising those things somewhere in the world. That's fantastic. Just know why you do what you do, not just what you do.

The upstream for you is confession. Having someone in your life who just isn't impressed with you. Someone who has permission to say, I know what you're like. It's almost like every spiritual leader at some point needs that person from seventh grade — "Yeah, but I knew you when. And you're not really all that." It's really good for a Three to always have someone in their life with that kind of access — someone who can say, "I know what you were like on vacation last summer. Whatever you do on stage, it doesn't impress me. I love you for who you are." That person you can be honest with about your struggles — because so much of Three is about presenting a life that's enviable, at least honorable and desirable. Having someone to say, "I don't care about all that stuff, I care about you — and God sees through all that stuff too" — that's a really helpful practice for a Three.

Tyler Zach (24:50)

Yeah, being married to a Six is helpful. She loves me, but she is not impressed with the things I try hard to do well. She's not impressed with Instagram followers. She's not impressed with image. When I was writing the Type Six book, I was struck by the idea that Sixes are one of the least easily infatuated types — they don't get caught up in image and impressive things. They want substance. They want to be your lifelong loyal friend. They desire friendship even more than romance.

So it's been so helpful being married to a Six who cares more about substance and loves me for who I am — even when I had to shave my head when I turned 30 as a Three. I loved my spiky blonde hair. But she could not have cared less. To have somebody that loves me for me has just been transformative in my life.

AJ Sherrill (25:52)

I think pastorally a bald head carries much more credibility than spiky blonde hair. You're in a good spot.

Tyler Zach (25:57)

I'm envious of you — you've got the collar, the glasses. I've seen your pictures. But thank you for the compliment. We'll just go back and forth the rest of the interview.

AJ Sherrill (26:12)

We'll call that a session. That's Type Four — let's move on. Your fixation is melancholy. You can get stuck and think that your experience is all there is in the world and shrink everything down to that — I'm a Four-wing, I can do that very easily. Your vice can be envy, especially when others succeed. So emotional balance is what you're looking for.

Your downstream is solitude, journaling, creating, expressing how you feel. You're really good at that. And I always tell Fours with journaling: start by praying for other people. Get out of your own narrative long enough to say, I'm not just going to write about what I'm feeling. I want to start with: I want to pray for Lucy because she's wrestling with cancer. I want to pray for Mark because he's going through a hard time with his dad. Whatever you're aware of — it's good for you to get out of yourself long enough to enter into the story of another. You're typically really good at empathy anyway, so it kind of takes the edge off of being so self-reflective. It disciplines you to start with a larger frame and work backwards from there.

Your upstream practice is feasting. Be the one at every party, graduation, birthday — be the one that brings joy to the room, that brings the bottle of champagne. It's a form of resistance to the pull toward loathing in your circumstances. Let me get out of that and celebrate the gift of someone else. I don't need to be made much of here. I just want to give my attention to their existence.

Jesus was always feasting with people — he'd look up in a tree and say, "Hey, I'm coming to your house. Let's do this." And they would feast. So feasting is a really great practice that Fours need to pay attention to, otherwise their melancholy can get the best of them.

For the Five — the Investigator — your fixation is stinginess, particularly around the greed of knowledge. Your brain is so beautifully and wonderfully made. The underside is greed around those things. Your virtue is non-attachment. I always talk about the Five being like a cell phone battery icon — you're always evaluating whether the next conversation is going to drain that battery. You're constantly thinking about how to conserve energy and hoard your knowledge. And you worked hard for it.

Your downstream: anything that allows you to acquire knowledge — inductive Bible study, reading, articles, podcasts, getting insight. I also always tell Fives: what would it look like, on your morning commute, to just not listen to anything? To say, is there anything you want to say to me? Maybe that time isn't always meant for information. Maybe it's just meant to say: I'm here at your pleasure, Lord. And if it's just silence, I'm fine with that too. Acquiring information and knowledge is really meaningful for the Five — reading books, all of it. Really meaningful.

Your upstream is integration. The brain is diffused into the rest of your body — through your nerves, through the signals it's sending. I'm moving my hands right now because of my brain. Take the things you know in your mind and diffuse them into your hands, your feet. Our faith is not just what we think — it's what we do with our feet, because what we do with our feet reveals what we really believe. So our faith is in our feet.

I always tell Fives: integrate what you know into your life. You're not just an ideator. You're someone who's also been called to integrate what you know into your life so that other people would experience your presence. Not in a negative way — but like the way Jesus came in flesh to be with us. Jesus didn't send a text message. He came in flesh. And people want to be with you, Five. You typically have favor with people. So learn to show up, to serve, to allow what you know to be lived out in hospitality and in flesh.

Tyler Zach (31:34)

The whole difference between knowledge and wisdom — wisdom being the practical application of knowledge — that's huge. That's a huge point for Fives.

AJ Sherrill (31:46)

Information is not transformation. Those are not synonymous.

Moving on to Six. As you know, Sixes have a fixation of fear, of cowardice. You can get stuck there — lots of fits and starts. Your virtue is courage. I always think of Peter as a kind of biblical illustration — not saying Peter's a Six, but we see a lot of Six presentation in his life. Fits and starts. "I'll die for you, Lord" — and then denying him the next moment. "I'll come out to you on the water" — and then sinking. These strange extremes.

Your downstream is what's called Lectio Divina. There can be a fear of contemplative prayer for Sixes — what if I'm silent before God and something goes wrong? So start with Scripture. Lectio Divina has four pivots: read a scripture for a few minutes, reflect on it, write about it, then rest. After you've written about it, you know God hears all that — he's got it — and now you can just sit in his presence. Imagine going down into a pool — you begin with the Scripture and you move down, down, down, until you end with just being with God in the streams of the living water. Not saying anything, not adding anything. Just being with God face to face. That's a safe way into contemplative prayer for Sixes. I also talk about it in Being with God if you want to go deeper.

Your upstream practice is Scripture memory. Not that it's particularly hard for you, but fear is such a theme in Scripture — someone once said there are 365 verses about fear, one for every day. There's something about rooting God's Word in your heart so that when you feel that fear, you can claim it: I know God has called me to this. I don't want fear to win the day. I've hidden this Scripture in my heart to remind me in moments like this: I'm not a fearful person. I can do this. I can stand into this. This is what God is calling me to do.

I also find that Sixes really love singing. In all my research, Sixes love worship music — not that every Six does, but I think what's happening is there's a kind of safety in hearing other voices saying: okay, I'm not crazy to believe this stuff. So being in a worshiping body, or listening to worship music, can be a really great practice — it reminds you you're not alone.

Tyler Zach (34:48)

Singing kind of drowns out the inner committee and the doubt. You're singing about your confidence in the Lord, and that can drown out some of the fear and constant questioning. That's probably one of the reasons singing is so powerful for Sixes.

AJ Sherrill (35:08)

Yeah, absolutely.

All right, we'll wrap with Seven. Sevens — we love them. Their vice is gluttony, which you can imagine might inform some helpful practices. Their virtue is sobriety. Their fixation is anticipation — adventure can get in the way of actually being present in the moment. Everything becomes future-oriented, planning the next thing.

Your downstream is feasting. But here's the thing: gluttony can take a lot of different forms. It can be needing to feel important at an event, or drinking too much, or eating too much or too little, or binge-watching. You have to know yourself — where am I prone to gluttony? Where am I prone to alleviating my pain by excessively participating in something as a strategy to avoid what's hard? When you know that, it's good to have a plan before you get there. If you struggle with wine, decide beforehand: I'm only having one glass tonight. Set a ceiling. Because you don't want to over-rely on excess to numb out or avoid what you don't want to notice or focus on. Feasting is good — just make sure you're aware of your limits.

Your upstream is solitude and silence. I recommend doing that every day for a particular period of time. Sevens tend to want to avoid pain — so solitude and silence can feel like: why would I do that? Then I'm going to have to actually think about and reflect on the thing I don't want to be thinking about. So it's really good for Sevens to say, God is going to meet me in that place and counsel me through those things rather than letting me avoid them. Find 10, 20, 30 minutes a day that's uninterrupted, no phone, just you. You can walk. It's just time to reflect and read and be around things that help you process your past and your present.

And again, for all of these — there's a whole range of practices out there, whether it's The Spiritual Disciplines Handbook by Adele Calhoun, or Celebration of Discipline by Foster. We have so many resources in terms of spiritual practice. It's about finding your fixation — where am I stuck? — and then asking what would be transformative for me if the presence of God were actually there while that was happening. Having a plan for your life.

Most of life is: have a plan and show up. I think 90% of spirituality is showing up. And it's amazing what happens. But the lives we're living right now by default — we're not showing up, we're reacting, rushing from one thing to the next, not actually living our lives. We have agendas that are living our lives for us. We need to step back and say: who is it that I want to be? Because no one ever became like Jesus by accident. If you're not intentional, you will not become like Jesus accidentally. Take that agency for your formation and have a plan for what it is God wants to do in and through you.

Tyler Zach (39:05)

If you benefited from this episode, please make sure to hit the like button, subscribe, and give us a five-star rating and write a review so that this content will be shared with more Enneagram enthusiasts like yourself.

Before you go, take a moment to reflect on the upstream and downstream disciplines A.J. shared for your type. How can you lean into your downstream discipline — the one that comes more naturally to you? And what is one small micro goal you can set to practice your upstream discipline — the one that stretches you and helps you become the person you're longing to become?

Remember: spiritual formation is slow, steady work. But over time, these practices can smooth your rough edges and shape you into something beautiful.