Listen Now

You can watch the video on YouTube (above) or listen on these platforms:

  

Summary

Join me and Christa Hardin as we go around the Enneagram and talk about three ways each type can improve their marriage. Christa has been counseling and coaching couples for over two decades, and she holds a master's in clinical psychology with a specialty in marriage and family. She hosts the popular show, The Enneagram and Marriage Podcast, and is the author of the bestselling book, The Enneagram and Marriage.

Get the Notes

📑 FREE PDF Download: Healthy Relationships Podcast Notes
Get the bullet-point notes for all 6 episodes—key insights, no fluff, easy to revisit.

👉🏼 Download here: https://witty-atom-266.myflodesk.com/e2ch69d9k0

Healthy Relationships Series

🎙️ Episodes in the Healthy Relationships Series

• How Each Enneagram Type Can Create Healthy Relationships | Suzanne Stabile (Ep. 1)
• What Each Enneagram Type Looks Like in Love | Steph Barron Hall (Ep. 2)
• What May Not Be Serving Your Relationships for Each Enneagram Type | Sarajane Case (Ep. 3)
• Relationship Tips for Each Enneagram Type | Ashton Whitmoyer-Ober (Ep. 4)
• 3 Ways Each Enneagram Type Can Improve Their Marriage | Christa Hardin (Ep. 5)
• Healthy Communication for All Enneagram Types | Dani Cooper (Ep. 6)

The Guest

👉🏼 Follow Christa Hardin

https://www.enneagramandmarriage.com/

Read The Transcript

Tyler Zach (00:20)

Welcome to Typish, an Enneagram podcast where we explore how your personality shows up in all of life. I'm your host Tyler Zach, and in each episode I connect you with leading experts on how your personality impacts your relationships, mental health, spirituality, and everything in between.

We are in the middle of a six-week series called Healthy Relationships. If you want the bullet point notes for all six episodes right now so that you can start to see improvements in your relationships right away, you can click on the link below in the show notes and download that PDF as a free gift.

Over these six weeks, you'll get to hear from Suzanne Stabile, Sarah Jane Case, Dani Cooper, Ashton Whitmoyer-Ober, Steph Barron-Hall, and today I sit down with Christa Hardin. Christa has been counseling and coaching couples for over two decades, and she holds a master's in clinical psychology with a specialty in marriage and family. She hosts the popular show, The Enneagram and Marriage Podcast, and is the author of the bestselling book, The Enneagram and Marriage: Your Guide to Thriving Together in Your Unique Pairing.

Today's episode features part of my conversation with Christa that originally aired during my very first summit back in 2023. So join me and Christa now as we go around the Enneagram and talk about three ways each type can improve their marriage.

Christa (01:51)

I love to start with One because I love being practical — it keeps me organized. But I also want to thank you for this question, Tyler, because usually we ask, how can we love an Eight or a Nine? And I love how you're framing it as action steps. So we're not just loving the types, but we're really allowing each type to come out of themselves and love their partners. So thank you.

Tyler (02:18)

Awesome. I can't wait to learn from you.

Christa (02:22)

I try to present some unique points. So for Type Ones — what's really helpful in the work I do with them is to remind them to see their spouse as God sees their spouse, or as others in their community see their spouse. Ones have such a particular gift for seeing details. My husband often says, "I can't even help it. I wish I didn't have this gift." Of course he does, because he's in medicine and now he can diagnose everything. Like yesterday he said, "I diagnosed cancer and heart disease" — big things, because of that One-ness.

But sometimes because of that detail orientation, they need to come back out to the big picture. How does God see my partner? How do others see them? That really frees them. And because Ones are compliant and enjoy hearing what others think about their partner, it actually really improves their marriage if the spouse can be humble about that too.

Also, I think it's very helpful for Type Ones — because they love doing what is right — to remember that it is right to love. I love how C.S. Lewis says in The Four Loves (one of my husband's and my favorite books) that we don't just love somebody because they're attractive or strong, but we love them because they're ours, and it's right and good to love them that way.

And then lastly — this is a huge one for Type Ones, and I want to say it gently — it's important to remember that you have flaws too, ones that your spouse doesn't mention because they know you're really hard on yourself and they know you have a strong inner critic. So sometimes you might feel like you don't have many flaws. In the marriage context, you might forget that you have issues too, but they don't always tell you because of that. So just remember that humbly, and I think you're on the right track.

Tyler (04:23)

You're right. None of us have perfect, 100% self-awareness. And so we're going to need to receive feedback from our spouse. And if our spouse is loving us well and giving us lots of encouragement and putting chips in, then it shouldn't be that hard to receive that. So I love that.

Christa (04:43)

Yeah. And we're not even encouraging that spouse to give them critiques. We're just encouraging them to hold it in faith that they could — but they're choosing not to.

Tyler (04:51)

Yes. Perfect. What about Type Twos?

Christa (04:55)

Type Twos — it's so important that you let your spouse love you the way that they love you. And by that I mean, they do love you, but you have to see the ways it's being done so that you can receive it. Because a lot of Twos are looking for certain ways of being loved and may have a more intense relationship with their own love language than some of the other types. That's great because you know what you love — but often your spouse is doing the best they can with what they already have to offer.

And so it's so beautiful when you can just experience this release of, wow, everybody doesn't feel the same way as me and they have other gifts. Not only is it helpful for the vice of pride, but it's helpful just to receive the love. You really get something. I've had people weep over that — finally having the blinders off and being able to see they're already being loved so well.

Tyler (05:51)

You're saying that other people have different love languages and may show their love in different ways — and for the Two to open themselves up to receive all those other unique ways that people love. Is that what you're saying?

Christa (06:03)

Yeah, that's well said. Yes. And even if they're not expecting the same love language they give — which I know most of the time Twos are — sometimes they're just saying, "I know your love language is this, so I give it to you." And they don't realize that their own love language may be rubbing against their spouse in a unique way. So just receiving the love that their spouse has to give, whatever the love languages are.

Tyler (06:30)

Gotcha. That's really helpful.

Christa (06:32)

Another tip for Twos is to develop their minds, and that usually comes through verbal processing. They have such big hearts, but spending time on that development of mind can take them so far. The Enneagram is a great space to do that — just take a deep breath with confidence and put on the layers of the Enneagram step by step. As Suzanne Stabile has said, a whole lifetime with just your one type is enough. So don't rush it.

Also, I want to really encourage Twos in marriage to have good boundaries with the opposite sex. That allows them to pour back into the marriage itself and to stop any kinds of envy, and to really look at the joys of who their spouse is — and to trust God with the needs of other people's spouses.

Because often Twos can feel the needs of those in their community, and they're very gentle and loving and nurturing. And so it's important to understand that when you do that for somebody else's spouse — or even somebody outside of your marriage who could potentially develop an attraction to you or vice versa — to really be humble with God and say, you're going to take care of them, and I'm going to take care of my marriage. That's a good tip for Twos.

Tyler (07:58)

Okay.

Christa (08:01)

Type Threes. The heart triad — Twos, Threes, and Fours — can all struggle with shame. So it's important that Threes really learn to address the anxiety around that shame, because they move very fast. And when they can address the anxiety underneath, it can help them — whether that anxiety is coming from a generalized anxiety disorder, panic disorder, something to do with thyroid, or more likely, what I heard from a Three on the Fathoms podcast: that it's important for Threes to look at whether their anxiety is coming from a lack of healthy self-efficacy or self-esteem.

Tyler (08:46)

I'm still trying to figure out who I am. And it's just helpful to have a Type Six wife who's not impressed with my Type Three achievements — who's not wooed by all that stuff. She just loves me for who I am and continues to remind me that I'm loved for who I am, not what I do. And so it's really healing to be married to a Type Six.

Christa (09:11)

That's beautiful. I love that she has that loyalty to you, not to what you do.

Tyler (09:17)

Yes.

Christa (09:19)

That's so cool about Lindsay. Another thing for Threes to remember — and you're doing this in your marriage — is that although Threes can be excellent at executing plans and working on a marriage, just being in the marriage long term is a really great and, again, very humbling goal. Just doing something quietly, offstage, in the background. Just living life, allowing the hum of life to settle in and enjoying love for the sake of being intimate with one another — versus achieving or having somebody amazing on your arm.

I think that's a really beautiful step when Threes can say, "I may be really good at starting things, but I want to be good at being in this and finishing well" — versus just starting relationship after relationship.

The third tip I have for Threes is similar: regularly being proud of your spouse and their achievements and displaying that. I think a lot of Threes actually do this — and sometimes it's a misnomer that they don't do this well, because I actually think they're some of the most supportive and romantic spouses I've ever seen.

But when and if they forget to do this because they're very busy with their own work, it's important that they come back around and start re-celebrating their spouse. Because when they're not doing it, I think their spouse really feels it. It's as if the spouse is saying, "You are such a great encourager and cheerleader for me — so when you're not doing that because you're caught up in your stuff, I miss it. It's a specific gift that you give me that I may not have." So I just love to see Threes cheerleading for their spouses' issues and causes.

Tyler (11:07)

All right, I want to keep going.

Christa (11:09)

Sure. So I love for Enneagram Fours to dream together, because a lot of Fours spend time dreaming about the past or fantasies ahead that may not include their spouses. It may feel safe to do that. But when you include your spouse in your dreaming, it's more whole and it's healthier and it's more fulfilling — because often those are God-given dreams you can achieve together, or at least cheerlead for each other.

So it's important for a Four to be able to take life at a slow pace — and for their spouse to know that — but to include their spouse in the dreaming. And then, oftentimes Fours spend time in the depths and in a space of melancholy. My second tip for Fours is to allow their creativity to move them. It's hard to get a Four moving, but they do often move through their lamenting when they invite in an art form as a kind of muse. Sometimes that even gets shared with the world.

I know my daughter bangs on the piano when she's really trying to let it out — it's wonderful to see because I know this is a healing space and we're moving through something. She also does worship dance four or five times a week. So Fours really need the doing, but it comes through the art. Whether it's pottery or whatever it is, please make sure you get that in, and your marriage will get healthier as you begin to get up.

And then lastly, I think Fours do really well when they have time for laughter and joy in their marriage. Just as a reminder: make time for the funny, silly shows. Fours love to go back to the past — a classic like Back to the Future or a funny Seinfeld episode, whatever cracks you up, whatever memes. Spend time in it, because your emotional mirth is so beautiful for others to see. Fours carry a joy that is often just mesmerizing. We want more of it.

Tyler (13:35)

The part about the dreaming really stuck out to me — they're just daydreamers, the romantics. And to include your spouse in those, not to let that get away from you. That is really helpful.

Christa (13:49)

Yes, and moving that dreaming inward together is so great.

What's fun about Fives is all their tips sort of roll together. But they start, I think, with a Five admitting that they do have emotions. Because a lot of the time we quickly assume Fives don't have emotions — that they have thoughts rather than feelings. And I think when we're all being honest, we know that even male Fives do have emotions. They're just hidden. And males in general are not socialized for emotion, so we're finally starting to do some work in this area.

That's beautiful for Five males in particular, because they're starting to feel permission to have their emotional thinking have space. They're also finally allowing in — and this is my first tip — private time for crying, for releasing the emotions that do come up when you've allowed some thought. Usually because they're in the fear triad along with Sixes and Sevens, it's things that scare them, things they're afraid of happening in their relationship, ways their spouse has accidentally or intentionally hurt them. And instead of just being the stoic survivor, allowing it in — I'm human, it hurts, I'm vulnerable — and then moving forward.

The next step for Fives is being brave enough to rise up in that strength. I think that's not only very attractive to your spouse, but it's important to say, there's more to me than you realized. Yes, I conserve energy and I conserve emotions, but I can allow the emotions to roll through me and then rise up into my doing space — finally, instead of being doing-inhibited.

So it's a beautiful thing for Fives to address not just being feelings-inhibited, but doing-inhibited. Either one can catch them. And when they're centered, it's like — I'm thinking, I'm doing, I'm feeling.

And then my third tip: allow your fun side toward your spouse to come to life. Chase them a bit. Instead of always holding back, show them — I'm showing up in the world. I'm not just calculating my thoughts. I'm living adventurously. And I've seen this happen time and again with the couples I work with — the Five's spouse is just like, okay, I'm here, how can I meet you? Because they're stronger and in that Eight-energy space, and it's so attractive and beautiful. But it starts with feelings, heads into doing, and then leads to fun.

Tyler (16:48)

So well put. All right. Type Sixes.

Christa (16:52)

Let's talk about Sixes. Sixes love their comforts. I also like to think of them as a grounded comfort type. Sometimes when I'm thinking in my Lord of the Rings world, I think about the hobbits — a lot of people don't realize that about Sixes. They're warriors, but they love to be comfortable and grounded. They often don't feel that stability, so they're working so hard for it in their marriage that sometimes they can forget to show appreciation for what already is.

So my first tip for Sixes is: you're doing well on the comfort thing, as well as we can really expect. So let's move into appreciation for what is.

Next, I want to remind Sixes that in addition to seeking comfort, they can do a lot of doom scrolling or negative forecasting. And unfortunately, self-fulfilling prophecies can come when we invite in thoughts like, "I'm worried you're going to do this, I'm worried this is going to happen." And instead of rolling through them and moving past them, there can be an endless loop of one more thing to process, one more potential outcome. So just really release that with courage and trust.

And leading into my last tip — inviting some fun in can really help a Six. They have that Seven wing to lean into for lighter conversations intentionally. A lot of them also have a really great experience with their Nine arrow of peace. Just going into those spaces of peace and fun can give them that doing-movement of: I'm not just thinking and processing, or feeling these intense feelings — I'm out there having a good time. And I'm now ensuring that my marriage will be healthier because I'm not projecting my insecurities. I'm trusting God, which is super attractive — that new confidence. And I'm also showing that I appreciate my partner, which is absolutely huge.

Tyler (18:54)

I loved all your tips for Sixes and I'll definitely share those with Lindsay.

What I've needed to learn as a Type Three is how to create space for her to express her doubts and concerns without shutting them down and saying, "Don't worry about that, it's going to be okay." As a Three, I just want to say, have hope, have faith.

But her side of it — to meet me in the middle — is to not just come with the doom and gloom of doubts and concerns, but to come with solutions and a cautious optimism. That really ministers to me when she can stay cautiously optimistic about life and not just throw up the red flag and catastrophize that everything's going downhill fast.

Christa (19:47)

Beautiful. And it just blesses the brain work too — we're learning more and more about what makes brains work healthily, and positivity within reason is a big part of that. I'm glad you guys are taking that and bringing it to whoever is out there listening. And yes — these are the tips for each type, so we want our spouses to meet us there, but these are also the ways we ourselves can grow.

So for Sevens — tell your spouse what you want, even at the risk of making them unhappy. Because something Sevens are always scanning for, in their contingency management, is: is everyone in my circle really happy? We're idealists. We want them to be perfectly, amazingly happy — and often they're just normal.

I have some comfort types in my family — a Nine who's like, "Mom, chill, it's not even 8 AM." And I have a Four, a One, and my son who's a little Six-ish/Seven-ish. Between the five of us, I've really had to learn that it's important not only that people have a right to all kinds of emotions, but that I express my needs even if it's going to rock the boat.

Because if you don't, you can go to a really unhealthy critical space as a Seven when people don't meet your needs. You start saying, "Why weren't you mind-reading that I would have wanted you to do this?" And they're like, "You never even told me." So something Sevens will need to keep working on is this: you truly have a good heart for wanting people to be happy, but people just need to hear from you what you need.

And that rubs right up against the deep Seven fear that says, "Nobody will be there for me." So we just have to say — but they might if I tell them what I need. And they definitely won't if I don't.

Also — take a daily rest of some sort, especially on days when you're too hyped up. If your energy isn't balanced, the people at home won't get you in a balanced way. Whether you're taking a 10-minute power nap, eating more protein, or toning your workout down — you have to account for the energy lost. Or my last tip will play out: don't leave scraps for your mate.

What often happens is your family doesn't get you in a rested way when the end of the day rolls around. The world might say you're so sunshiny, but your family will say, "Where are you?" I've seen this with clients — they were out jogging for five hours, and when they came home they just kind of fell apart. So keep an eye on your energy levels, save something for your mate, and make sure you're balanced enough to be a good listener. And as I said at the beginning — actually share your needs.

Tyler (23:22)

That's so good. I love the piece about not leaving leftovers for your partner. That's so good.

Christa (23:29)

Everyone needs each of these gifts. We all need them all — so spread it around, but save the most for your spouse and your family.

Tyler (23:36)

Yep. All right, Type Eights.

Christa (23:40)

Type Eights — when you get discouraged, it's so easy to say, "I won't go near them anymore. I'm done with them." On the interior, the Eight is really just feeling that resentment, that vindication wanting to rise up and say, "They hurt me and it'll never happen again."

But I just want to encourage you: don't give up on the relationship. Just take a short break. Head into that metaphorical Five space — and it's probably quite real for you: a lair, a cave, wherever you need to go to recover. Let your heart rate come back down to where you can process logically again. Take some time to breathe, to rest, and to understand that your spouse is human. Humans will disappoint, but we still need each other, and you will do better in life with healthy connection. In most cases, your partner just loves you — but also has issues. We all have issues.

Which is my second tip for Eights: reduce your perfection expectations. And I think that, along with the short-break tip, can really help you.

Because again — just like I said to Ones, and we're heading back into these justice and right-and-wrong types: Ones, Eights, and Nines. A lot of people don't want to say to an Eight, because you do so much for others and you help so well, that you have issues too. That sometimes you maybe take up more space than they would like, or come on more strong. When you can acknowledge that — and I want your spouse to be able to tell you so you can work on it together — just understand that in their eyes, you're less than perfect too.

So please try to reduce your perfectionism expectations in that light. I know if you're an Eight you're probably thinking, "No, they need to tell me what's going on." And we believe that too. But try to remember: sometimes my spouse doesn't tell me that I irritate or annoy them. And sometimes they do tell you — but when they don't, that's grace. And I want you to have grace for your people too, so that you can stay connected and strong together. And back to that C.S. Lewis quote from The Four Loves — love them because they're yours, not because they're perfect.

Tyler (26:15)

I never thought of Eights in terms of having perfection expectations. Can you talk a little bit more about that? What does perfectionism look like for an Eight?

Christa (26:21)

Yes. Eights are really good at loving and following up with their strength and their intent. And I think a lot of the other types — as we've talked about — might be too busy worrying or doing or working. And the Eight can feel that they're giving a lot more with very little return.

What they're forgetting is that as a very strong body type and power type, they may have more energy to start with. Each human being has different neurobiology. So they're forgetting that I don't come with the same raw materials as my spouse — I'm not the omnipotent judge. Relaxing off of that looks like saying, "I'm not perfect either. My spouse is going to disappoint me sometimes." And healthy Eights know that. They do a beautiful job of pulling back. Sometimes they get cross — but they rest, they recover, and they come back out to love. Being very sensitive, they're going to need that recovery time.

Tyler (27:36)

That makes sense. And it sounds like what you're saying is it looks like an Eight moving to the unhealthy side of Two — because Twos can get angry and hulk out when they're loving and serving and doing all these things and not getting it in return. I always think of that Bruno Mars song — "I'd catch a grenade for you" — I would do all these things for you, but you won't do the same.

Christa (28:01)

And I love how you clarified that, because some people wouldn't see the Eight in the light of the Two if they're not familiar with arrows. And if you're not familiar with the Eight, Nine, and One kind of being on the mountaintop looking down — watching over, thinking we're the best — it really blesses us all just to hear: other people have other gifts. I'm just going to take a rest and come back.

Tyler (28:25)

The Nines have been so patient.

Christa (28:27)

Thank you, Nines. We love you and we want you to know that you're allowed to show up for your emotions. I know it's not always fun or comfortable. But I think it's a really rewarding experience to remember that you're beloved as well, and to just take a few minutes a day quietly.

Usually for Nines, they like quiet time with God. My daughter's favorite way to experience God is through just that stillness. And when you can have some of that time and give yourself permission for it, you can start to really open up about what's happening in your life — and decide what's worth sharing and rocking the harmony a bit, and what needs to just be let go of because the inner whisper is saying, "I really am loved and people aren't forgetting me as much as I think."

There are all kinds of thoughts and experiences you can have when you start to address your emotions in a healthy way. So that's my first tip. You're worth that time. A lot of Nines need 30 minutes to two hours a day just for themselves.

Another tip: show up for your spouse's cause, not just your own. Nines love right action, but what's really important is that they show up with enough energy to champion for their spouse's cause. And that's such a beautiful gift. I do believe Nines have a lot of body-type power. I don't think Nines lack energy when they're in a healthy space — and I say that as someone who's not a Nine, so you can speak to it better than I can. But what I've seen is a kinetic power, extremely strong, like an oak coming to life — a river pouring out everywhere with love. And when they can really wake up, their spouse's issues get so much love and attention too.

So my last tip for Nines is to remember to integrate your body work. As we talk about speaking up and allowing your thoughts and feelings to come back to you — how does the Nine do this? It's usually through allowing some time with stillness in your body, or through actual activity. Definitely get your sleep — Nines enjoy their sleep — but also do some fitness or body work each day: massage, taking care of dietary needs, really actively inhabiting your body with love. So that in addition to merging with everybody else, you are awake and alive, and now you can serve in the beautiful way we know you do. But you're important too. Those are my tips for Nines.

Tyler (31:36)

I can't remember where I heard it, but I love the saying: if you can't get along with a Nine, it's not their fault — it's your fault. Nines are so likeable and peaceable. And I just love the Nines in my life.

I think it might have been Seth Abrams on the Fathoms podcast — a Nine — who said he was coming to terms with the fact that the Nine's gift of mediating and seeing all sides can, in StrengthsFinder terms, take you from the balcony to the basement pretty quickly in a relationship. Because when you're always trying to smooth things out, it can actually lead you to not show up for your partner, or to not be an advocate or ally for them.

So if your spouse is having conflict with somebody at work, or another family member, or the in-laws, and you're saying, "Well, they just mean this, this is how they're saying things" — using your gift to help them see all sides — you can actually equalize everything. And if there's an injustice, if the in-laws or your parents are treating your spouse poorly, you need to show up for your spouse. Get a little angry. Enter into conflict if you need to, and show up — rather than always just trying to smooth things out. Does that make sense?

Christa (33:15)

I love it. That's awesome. And I think the Nines listening are like, "Yes, this is a good one for me. It's a good challenge." And I would just add: since Nines can get stubborn, and can also at times sit in that judgmental triad with Eights and Ones, they can also learn to find the balance — yes, we want to encourage our spouses first, as I said to other types, but do come back around to knowing that most people out there are doing the best that they can. So you can still be an advocate for people to be understood.

But I wouldn't always start there — just keeping the peace. I would really allow Nines to say: to use my gift truly at its best, I'm going to advocate. I'm an advocate for love with everybody, especially my spouse, because that's my person. So thank you for reminding them to really prioritize their spouse along with themselves.

Tyler Zach (34:27)

If you benefited from this episode, please make sure to hit the like button, subscribe, and give us a five-star rating and write a review so this content will be shared with more Enneagram enthusiasts like yourself.

Now before you go, let me leave you with this: Which of Christa's tips stood out to you the most today? And what's one small step you could take this week to put it into practice in your marriage or one of your closest relationships?

The good news is that no one is asking you to be the perfect spouse — just to stay curious, connected, and willing to grow.