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Summary

In this conversation, Enneagram & Coffee creator Sarajane Case discusses the challenges each Enneagram Type faces in relationships. She highlights the importance of self-awareness and growth for each type, emphasizing the need to address negative patterns and develop healthier behaviors. Note: This teaching originally appeared at Tyler’s Love & Relationships Summit in 2024.

Get the Notes

📑 FREE PDF Download: Healthy Relationships Podcast Notes
Get the bullet-point notes for all 6 episodes—key insights, no fluff, easy to revisit.

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Healthy Relationships Series

🎙️ Episodes in the Healthy Relationships Series

• How Each Enneagram Type Can Create Healthy Relationships | Suzanne Stabile (Ep. 1)
• What Each Enneagram Type Looks Like in Love | Steph Barron Hall (Ep. 2)
• What May Not Be Serving Your Relationships for Each Enneagram Type | Sarajane Case (Ep. 3)
• Relationship Tips for Each Enneagram Type | Ashton Whitmoyer-Ober (Ep. 4)
• 3 Ways Each Enneagram Type Can Improve Their Marriage | Christa Hardin (Ep. 5)
• Healthy Communication for All Enneagram Types | Dani Cooper (Ep. 6)

The Guest

👉🏼 Follow Sarajane Case

• Books: https://www.amazon.com/stores/Sarajane-Case/author/B083SRLVZT
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sarajanecase

Read The Transcript

Tyler Zach (00:21)

Welcome to Typish, an Enneagram podcast where we explore how your personality shows up in all of life. I'm your host, Tyler Zach, and in each episode I connect you with leading experts on how your personality impacts your relationships, mental health, spirituality, and everything in between.

We are in the middle of a six-week series called Healthy Relationships. If you want the bullet point notes for all six episodes right now so that you can start to see improvements in your relationships right away, go ahead and click on the link below in the show notes and download that PDF as a free gift.

Over these next six weeks, you'll get to hear from Suzanne Stabile, Krista Hardin, Danny Cooper, Ashton Whitmer-Ober, and Steph Barron Hall. And today, I sit down with Sarajane Case.

Sarajane was really the first Enneagram content creator to go viral on Instagram, about a decade ago. She started the famous Enneagram and Coffee account, which grew to nearly half a million followers. She also created a hit podcast with the same name, Enneagram and Coffee, and now produces content on YouTube. She's the author of The Honest Enneagram and The Enneagram Letters.

Today's episode features a conversation with Sarajane that originally aired at my Enneagram summit on love and relationships. I asked her to pull some of her very best wisdom from her books that can really help you in the area of love and relationships. Trust me, you won't be disappointed. So join me and Sarajane now as we go around the Enneagram and explore a few things for each type that may not be serving your relationships.

Tyler Zach (02:05)

Is there anything that you want to say to preface the conversation before we dive into all nine types?

Sarajane Case (02:13)

I think — and maybe this is my Seven showing up — when we go into the aspects of us that aren't working for us or for our relationships, I think it's helpful to not receive this as criticism, or a character flaw, or something that's unchangeable. Instead, receive it as: these are tools that we can use to support ourselves better.

We learned how to be in a relationship as children, at almost a pre-cognitive age — so young that these little attachment patterns were created very early. So it's not like you're bad or you've done something wrong. Instead, receive it as: how can I pick up something to support myself in my desire to have healthier relationships?

Tyler Zach (03:02)

Because a lot of people have come out of a church context or other contexts where you can be really hard on yourself, or look at the negatives first. I like that in the Enneagram community there's that emphasis on — don't beat yourself up. See these as opportunities. So great preface.

Sarajane Case (03:21)

Yeah.

Tyler Zach (03:23)

Okay, do you want to jump into Type One?

Sarajane Case (03:26)

Yeah, let's go into Type One. And before I get into that, I'll say I also think it's helpful to remember that your greatest strengths are the other side of your greatest weaknesses. So sometimes when we're hearing areas for growth, we forget to appreciate the other side of that. It's just when it's used too much, or at the wrong time, or in the wrong scenario, that it gets kind of muddy.

So for Type One, I think one of the main things to keep in mind is the black and white thinking — right and wrong, good and bad. I like to think of it as a reliance on certainty, or a desire for absolute truth.

Tyler Zach (04:04)

I love that.

Sarajane Case (04:26)

This is almost at the core of the One's being — the sense that there is a good and a bad, a right and a wrong, and I know what that is. Or maybe my inner critic is really clear on what that is, and it loves to remind me and others when they are falling short.

This is obviously the other side of integrity. Ones bring incredible integrity — it's one of the things we learn from them. And when overused, or used at the wrong time, it can look like judgment, criticism. It can also look like having a difficult time receiving criticism, because you are already so hard on yourself that it's hard to take in anything else that could be, quote unquote, bad or wrong or negative.

Instead, doing what we talked about — looking at it as: everybody's different, there are lots of shades of gray, lots of ways to be — and asking, is this serving me? Is this serving them? Who are we to judge? That's a really tricky conversation to have. But for Ones, if you can focus on how can I expand in this situation — my understanding, my acceptance, my availability — instead of contracting around your desire for control, your fear of change, your fear of being bad or wrong.

Tyler Zach (05:54)

The black and white can be really, really good — because when something is wrong, you can't be gray about it. You have to be black and white.

Sarajane Case (05:59)

Mm-hmm.

Tyler Zach (06:03)

But to create just a little more space before going to that judgment — to step back, to suspend judgment for just a little bit longer — that can actually serve them well.

Sarajane Case (06:18)

Yeah. I also think with Ones it's helpful to keep in mind what I call idealistic frustration. With our idealistic types — One, Seven, and Four — we all have this vision of what could be: the perfect world, the perfect relationship, the perfect job. We can see the possibility, we see all the ways this could be.

And life can be really disappointing when you're able to envision utopia. Most things have something about them that's hard. Most relationships are difficult. Everything's going to disappoint you at some point. So if you can think about holding both at once — okay, I can envision a perfect relationship, and every relationship is also hard. Is this the difficulty I'm willing to choose? And how do I not take out my idealistic frustration on my partner? Because they're not perfect doesn't mean they're bad or wrong.

The only other thing I had for Ones here was not trusting others, overburdening yourself with tasks, and then taking that resentment out on the people that you love. Ones have a hard time knowing when to rest, how to rest, when to stop. A lot of us do, but Ones especially, because they want to be good. They want to do the appropriate thing, to have all the details taken care of. And when you're constantly overworked, overstressed, overburdened, that can come out as frustration, irritation, and resentment toward the people closest to you — because they're often the safest people to expel that negative energy onto.

So be conscious of that. Are you giving your crumbs to the people you love the most? Are they getting the grumpy version of you because you want to be appropriate to the world outside your home, and then you bring your frustration and irritation back to those you care about the most?

Tyler Zach (08:20)

Very good. Should we move on to Two?

Sarajane Case (08:25)

Yeah. So our Twos — again, the other side of the strength, right? Twos are very loving, open, accepting, giving, helpful. And on the other side of that, it can look like giving when not asked, which can feel like crossing a boundary. Giving in hopes of receiving — I call it using tactics to get your needs met instead of asking directly. Kind of: if I do for you, then you'll do for me.

Additionally, similar to One — overburdening yourself with giving to others and then resenting them for not doing the same for you, even though you didn't ask. So giving, and then feeling like, you don't love me because you don't give back the way that I give to you.

It's really helpful for Twos to start to expand the way we view love — to expand the language of love, to start to see lots of different options and opportunities for how love is shown and received. But also to start to see direct communication, clear boundaries, and clear asks as an act of love. As saying: I like this relationship, I want to maintain this relationship.

When someone sets a boundary with me, that's them maintaining that relationship. When I set a boundary with someone else, that's me maintaining that relationship. It's not a severing of a relationship — it's a building block to a healthier relationship. Start to see those things as positive instead of fearing them and running away from them. Because then you get to have actual, deep, connective love instead of that sugary sweet "I'll be there whenever you need anything" — and then secretly be angry underneath. You get to have more than that.

Tyler Zach (10:13)

Great points. Anything else on Two, or do you want to move on to Three?

Sarajane Case (10:18)

I would just want to say: it's safe to ask for what you want and need, even if you aren't guaranteed to get it. I think sometimes Twos fear asking because they think, well, what if they say no? But it's still okay to ask. You're still safe. You're still loved. You're still okay. Even if you ask and that request is denied, you don't have to hold shame for the ask.

And this comes with practice. The more you practice the ask, the easier the ask becomes. It feels really vulnerable the first five times you do it, but keep going. It gets easier. It becomes more normal. And it's not shameful to have a request.

Tyler Zach (11:02)

That's really, really good advice. Okay, what do I need to know — Sarajane is a Three — what's not serving my relationships?

Sarajane Case (11:07)

Well, one of the things that's great about Threes, right? They are inspiring. They are connective. They take on other people's ideas and help champion them. They push us forward. They motivate us. Every time I interact with a Three friend of mine, I leave with more ideas of how I could be improving my life, my business, growing in some way. That's incredible.

And when overused, or used too much, or at the wrong time, it can look like hiding your truth in order to be impressive — or to remain impressive — which is incredibly isolating for the Three. I like to think of it as: when you craft a persona of who gets to be loved, which is what a Three is often doing — I'm creating this image, this person is impressive in these ways — and we show that, and we never show what's behind it. The failures, the losses, the fears, the doubts, the huge mistakes that we all make. When we don't show that, all that love is going onto the mask. All the accolades, all the love, all the appreciation, every good thing people have to say about you — it's almost like hitting a defensive wall. Nothing's getting through.

Tyler Zach (12:24)

Mm.

Sarajane Case (12:37)

Meaning that deep, deep down, often Threes feel like nobody loves me. If I fail, I'm alone. When I feel like I'm not doing well, I need to hide. And instead, that's the moment to share, to open, to be more vulnerable — because that's when the love gets in. That's when it gets through, because the armor is down.

But as long as that persona, that mask, that armor stays up, it can often feel like: you love me for who you think I am, not who I really am. If anybody really knew me, no one would love me. That's the lie of the mask. So open up, let yourself be seen — especially in your failures, which is terrifying to most Threes — but that's where the love goes. That's where you get to see who's really going to stay, who's going to be with you, and what love gets to really look and feel like.

Tyler Zach (13:33)

We talk about the mask a lot with Threes, but I love that you said all the love is going to the mask. Your fixation, your energy, your preoccupation goes toward the mask. I call it walking around with an Instagram filter all the time as a Three — every conversation, when I jumped on with you, when I go to the store later — we carry this Instagram filter around and put energy toward working on it, adjusting all the settings.

Sarajane Case (13:55)

Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Tyler Zach (14:10)

And that's exactly what you're talking about with the mask. We can burn so many calories on the mask that it doesn't let ourselves through, and it doesn't create that authentic connection with our loved ones.

Sarajane Case (14:24)

And I think Threes are often craving positive feedback. You're craving: tell me what's good about me, tell me I'm doing a good job, be proud of me, be impressed by me.

That's amazing. But when that's all going to the mask — when it's all going to what you do or how impressive you are — then it's almost like all those compliments are just getting dumped out the bottom of the bucket. The bucket doesn't fill, because it's a never-ending need. But if that love can reach you when you're at your weakest — when you feel the least lovable, the least impressive, when you're the most raw and vulnerable — the bucket can actually start to fill up. Versus: that's just going to the mask. That's going to me when I'm doing what I'm supposed to do, when I'm good, when I'm impressive enough.

Something for Threes to be conscious of — have at least one person you can let your guard down with. Baby step it in.

Tyler Zach (15:26)

That's really, really good advice. Okay, Fours?

Sarajane Case (15:32)

Yeah. I have several for Four, so I'm trying to narrow it down. I'm married to a Four, so I was like, I have a lot here. We have a lot of data.

But I think the core thing I want to talk about for Four is shame — the root of shame, and that feeling that there is something missing in you that other people have. And that is going to impact so much of how you interact with people, how you engage in relationship.

The positive — the other side of this — is actually a deep connection to feeling, a deep connection to humanity, to the pain and grief of being a person, but also to the deep joys and revelry of being a person. Fours have access to so much depth of feeling.

And that can come with holding on to shame, holding on to regret. I think shame is the big one here. And that impacts the way you're going to engage with feedback, the way you're going to put yourself out there, being vulnerable, trusting that you're lovable, trusting that you're okay.

It can also create a kind of push-pull relationship — where you're afraid of abandonment, so you preemptively push a person away. And then as soon as they go, you're like, wait, come back. And I often think this stems from a lack of self-love, because it's almost like: well, if they love me, there must be something wrong with them, because I'm so broken. So if they love me, I should push them away. When actually, you're pretty great.

So the work isn't in navigating potential abandonment preemptively. It's in: am I going to be okay if they do leave? How do I build sustainability and love within myself and a positive internal voice, so that if someone goes, I know I'll still be okay — so that the people in my life, I don't have to test them or push them or pull them. I get to just be good where I am, and they can be a bonus, and we can create something really beautiful together.

I have one more thing for Fours. I've worked with a lot of Fours, I have a lot of friends who are Fours, and all the healthy Fours in my life have learned this thing. And I love them for it. And that is: expressing your feelings is always okay, but you don't always get to express your feelings however you want to express them.

Sometimes when Fours are just beginning their growth journey, they're like, I deserve to be heard. I can be heard in my anger, in my sadness, and you can go to the pits of despair — and I need you to go to the pits of despair with me. Every Four subtype is going to do that differently, of course. But as you grow and as you start to heal, you can recognize that you can be loved and seen and known by expressing those emotions without having to demand that they be heard and seen in the biggest form you have available.

Tyler Zach (19:05)

I love that Seven-Four pairing with your husband — you're a Seven with an eight-wing, would you say? One of my editors is a male Four married to a female Eight, and I just love that combination. And I think one of the reasons why it's so complementary is because as a Three with a four-wing, most of my friends are Sevens, because...

Sarajane Case (19:09)

Yeah, me too. Yeah, for sure.

Tyler Zach (19:31)

I love their positivity and their ability to call out the gold in me. My first mentor was a Seven, because they really balanced out the shame I was feeling. I had to be walked out of shame, and Sevens can be so healing for people who are walking in shame.

Sarajane Case (19:49)

Yeah. And my husband was holding so much shame when we first started dating. And I was like, what is it? Like, what are these deep secrets? He told them to me, and he was so vulnerable, so emotional. And I was like, literally none of that is a big deal. All of that is fine. But he had worked me up to where I thought, oh my gosh, what is it? And it was just very normal stuff.

When you open up the door to shame and you turn the lights on and share it with somebody — and I think Sevens are really good at this, Nines are really good at this too — just having someone who's non-judgmental be like, actually, that's not a big deal, you're fine — it can release a lot.

Tyler Zach (20:36)

That is huge. Because that was exactly my experience with my first mentor. I would whisper something I had done, and he'd say, "Oh, that's not a big deal." And I was like, really? Really? Yes. This is really, really good. Should we move on to Fives?

Sarajane Case (20:40)

Yeah, let's talk Fives.

One of the things I love about Fives, and feel like I've learned from them, is boundaries and self-management. As a Seven, I've often felt limitless in energy — like I can just do the most, as much as I want, and I will never tire. And Fives moderate that so well. They're conscious about where they put their time and their energy. They know when to isolate and recoup and recover.

And when done too much, or at the wrong time, it can look like isolation. It can look like not handling conflict. It can look like: I'll take care of me, you take care of you, we'll both be fine. It can look like resisting interdependence. One way this can also show up is minimizing your own needs to the point where you don't ever have to ask for help — saying, well, I'll just do without. All of this is kind of resisting connecting to people.

In my book, The Enneagram Letters, I have a piece written to Fives where I talk about that compartmentalization and compare it to a Container Store. You have these friends over here in this container, these friends over here in that container. And then love comes in and it wants to ooze its way out and touch everything. And that could be really scary for a Five — to suddenly have someone in your life who wants to be a part of everything, who wants to know your innermost thoughts, who wants to pry into your privacy.

A lot of times this wound for the Five comes from having parents who were either way too in your business, or never in your business at all. So either way, having someone want to be a part of everything, to be in your most innermost thoughts and time, can feel really oppressive and threatening.

I think there's a nice balance that can be found there. I'm not saying Fives no longer get alone time or any privacy. But make sure you're communicating with your partner. A lot of times that privacy is taken without communication — you just walk away, float away, or kind of assume they're going to give you that space. Having these conversations as early and as upfront as possible is going to really help the other person not take it personally.

But also, start to expand your ability to be interdependent. Let people take care of you. Let yourself be needed. Offer more than you think you have to give sometimes, and see that you're still okay. Build that strength, build that resilience. What we avoid, we become more and more sensitive to. A lot of times with Fives I get the feedback: but I do have limited resources, I don't have a lot of energy. And I get that, and I think that's probably true — but you can expand that intentionally. It'll be hard the first few times. You keep expanding, you keep growing, and then you start to adjust to your new normal.

Tyler Zach (24:18)

I think being a self-pres Three helps me experience what it's like to be a Five every once in a while — because I do want to conserve my energy and my time. There are moments where I think, I could just write and read all day, that sounds like a great day. And then I get on a call and I start talking to you, and I'm like —

Sarajane Case (24:35)

Mm-hmm.

Tyler Zach (24:40)

— this is really energizing. This has given me life here. Which is what a Seven wants to hear. I'm sharing your enthusiasm, Sarajane. Once you get into those experiences, the Five starts to realize: if I spend that, I'm going to get it back. And so it gives me confidence to keep getting out into the world and engaging with people. But it's hard, and the loved ones of Fives don't realize how hard it is.

Sarajane Case (24:47)

Yeah. Especially because a lot of Fives are in relationship to Twos — it's a really common pairing. And Twos are the most inclined to take that personally. So the more you can communicate, the better.

And I think for Fives, it can often feel like: if I communicate, I'm opening a doorway to my privacy that makes it seem negotiable, when for me it's non-negotiable. So by not talking about it, I'm maintaining that boundary.

Tyler Zach (25:14)

Mm-hmm.

Sarajane Case (25:36)

But you're in a relationship. And when you're in a relationship, you do kind of have to take some risks. And one of the risks you'll have to take — and I think this is a good thing for you in the long run — is that access point. You're not necessarily asking permission, but you're asking: is this the right place and the right time? Is there something you need, a reassurance you need from me before I go? How can I make sure that I leave you well, and not just leave you out cold?

Tyler Zach (26:05)

Yeah. Anything more on Five, or do you want to move on to Six?

Sarajane Case (26:10)

Yeah, let's get into Six. So our Sixes on the positive side — they show up for the people that they love. They tend to be good at keeping up with people, helping people think things through: okay, have you thought of this, or this? I like to say they're prepared for fun. We often think of Six as a more negative number, but actually most Sixes are incredibly fun and funny — often in a self-deprecating way.

I had a Six friend of mine say, "I just like to think of it as I'm trying to guarantee a good time. I'm not trying to prevent a bad time — I'm trying to guarantee a good time." And I love that take on Six, because it is owning that fun that's there, and the kind of nervous —

Tyler Zach (26:45)

Mm-hmm.

Sarajane Case (27:03)

— guarantee of it. How do I guarantee that? How do I stay prepared?

So when these things are kind of overused or used at the wrong time, it can look like overly relying on the opinions of others — lacking your own self-trust and relying on your relationships instead. I've had Sixes tell me they are the expert in their field, and they still call their mom and say, "Mom, what do you think I should do about this work decision?" Because they're looking for someone to say, yes, you can trust yourself here. So really, the work is in building your own sense of self-trust.

The other thing here can be a negative response to new ideas — especially if you have a Seven or Three partner. Be conscious of when someone says, "I'm applying for this job" or "I'm taking on this role" — that you don't immediately go to what could go wrong. Instead, celebrate with them first, pause with them, ask them questions. And then if they ask if you have any thoughts about what could go wrong, give those. Be supportive, be there for them.

I know that for Sixes, it feels like support to find the holes and make sure it's going to guarantee a good outcome — because you love them, you want everything to go well. But pause and celebrate first.

The other thing to be conscious of is balancing out the energy of a room. A lot of times Sixes will — if the room is too happy, they'll want to bring it down; if the room is too sad, they'll want to bring it up. Be conscious of that, because it can take you out of the experience you're having with your partner. It can take you out of the empathy you could have with your partner, because you're unconsciously trying to keep the level even. But if you're in relationship with a Four, for example, they want that energy mirrored. If you're trying to bring them up when they're trying to express sadness, it can feel like invalidation — even though that's not something you're consciously doing.

The other thing here is being overly loyal to your own detriment. Staying in relationships that aren't serving you, or that continuously cross your boundaries. I often see —

Tyler Zach (29:24)

Mm, that's good.

Sarajane Case (29:37)

— a Six who is very loyal to a parent, even if that parent is unkind to their spouse. They'll have a real difficulty with that tension, feeling pulled in two directions. But at some point you need to have those conversations to make sure that your spouse feels supported and loved, and that whatever boundaries need to be set get set.

Be willing to let people down a little bit in order to take care of the people who are most important.

And I think especially for us assertive types — Three, Seven, and Eight — we want to move fast. We have an idea and we're going. And for Sixes, it's like, whoa, slow down. And for us, that can feel threatening, because moving fast is how we've survived. So when a Six slows us down, it can feel like they're bumming us out, taking us down.

Tyler Zach (30:29)

Mm-hmm.

Sarajane Case (30:39)

But if we can reframe that — or if a Six can communicate: I'm not trying to slow you down, I'm just trying to understand so I can get on board — because once you have a Six on board, they're your biggest supporter. They're going to make it happen, they're going to keep it going for you.

Tyler Zach (31:08)

Yeah.

Sarajane Case (31:09)

But they need to test the steps a little bit before they jump on, because once they jump on, they're fully there.

Tyler Zach (31:18)

Perfect. I love that. That's really helpful. Okay, let's move on to Sevens.

Sarajane Case (31:24)

Okay. Sevens. The positive side here — they're very positive. They love to give people amazing experiences. They love to have amazing experiences. They tend to really inspire others to do what's best for them: you know, do what you need to do for yourself, take care of yourself, focus on what you need.

Now, obviously, on the other side of that, when overdone or used too much, it can look like the Seven really prioritizing their own needs over the needs of others. Giving you full permission: you take care of yourself, you do what you need to do, and I'm going to do what I need to do — don't stand in the way of me doing what I need to do. That can be really tricky in a relationship, because you have to collaborate in relationship. And I think Sevens often learn collaboration through relationship.

I heard a description of Seven once that has really stuck with me — that we're solo travelers through the universe, just kind of bouncing in and out of other people's lives. And I think that is often how Sevens approach relationship: a light touch. I'm going to come in, I'm going to sparkle, and then I'm going to step out. And all of the hard parts of being human, I'm going to navigate alone. Because as children, we learned that we had to take care of ourselves. We had to positively reframe. We had to be self-sufficient. So as adults, we often rely on navigating our own emotions internally.

I cannot tell you how many times I have been the life of a party, left, gone to my car to cry, came back, and returned to the party like all is well. No one ever knew I was sad.

So much of the Seven's sadness is a secret. And that's similar to the Three — if you only let people love you when you're bright and happy and sunshiny, you don't get to really fully absorb that love, because there's this whole other deeper, more complex side of you. If you're not letting people see it, you will never feel like people really love you for who you are.

That being said, and this sounds rudimentary, but — think about the needs of others. And I don't mean that Sevens don't care about other people. I think Sevens can be very generous, loving, enthusiastically supportive people.

Tyler Zach (33:55)

Yeah.

Sarajane Case (34:06)

But if my needs are in conflict with your needs, that is where the test comes. If you getting your needs met prevents me from getting my needs met, how am I going to show up in that relationship?

And I think for Sevens, it's going to take some acceptance that everyone's not going to always get their needs met all the time. Sometimes you sacrifice. And that's a really scary place to be as a Seven — sacrifice. It feels like settling. It feels like being trapped, like being told you can't do all the things you want to do in the world. But when you do it, you get to access a depth of love that is more expansive, more freeing — one that ultimately allows you more opportunity than you get when you're just bouncing in and out and letting people only see the surface part of you.

Tyler Zach (35:03)

A way that we need to have self-compassion for Sevens — I thought about Fives, because Fives can be misinterpreted when they go get their alone time. They can appear selfish: they're so selfish, always wanting to be alone. I think for Sevens it can be the same way. If you're trying to get your needs met, Sevens can appear very selfish — only thinking about themselves. But it's coming from this place of: I want to be taken care of. I want

Sarajane Case (35:31)

Mm-hmm.

Tyler Zach (35:31)

someone to take care of me, my needs to be met. And I really don't think that's going to happen. So I just don't have the capacity to sit with you in suffering right now. I don't have the capacity to attend to your needs, because I feel like I might die.

Sarajane Case (35:38)

Yeah.

I had this major, life-changing realization in my marriage. I was in a situation where I needed something and I couldn't get it. And I needed my partner to get it for me. So I was yelling for him — can you get this? Can you get this? And he couldn't hear me. And I started crying. And the thought was: I always have to take care of myself. No one will ever take care of me.

When you have those moments, you start to learn: that's childhood. When you're having a really big reaction to a really small situation — the phrase is, if it's hysterical, it's historical. I had this huge reaction where I thought, I'm going to have to take care of myself forever. And I expressed that to my husband, who's a Four, a lovely Four. And he goes, "Oh, sweet girl" — like he was talking to the little kid in me. He was just like, "Hey, I've got you. You don't have to only take care of yourself." But that's what we're afraid of. We've learned to survive alone. We've learned to get our needs met our own way, at whatever cost.

Tyler Zach (36:44)

I'm sorry.

Sarajane Case (37:05)

As you get into healthier relationships, you start to recognize that you can — similar to the Five — have interdependence. You can let people take care of you. You have to trust, you have to take that step of trust to rely on someone else. But when you do, you don't have to grasp and clamor for your needs to be met. You can have a soft, slower peace — that everything is going to work out in its time, that this moment isn't every moment, and just because I'm suffering right now doesn't mean I'll suffer forever.

Tyler Zach (37:40)

Beautiful. Well said. Okay, Type Eight — should we move on? Or do you have any last comments for Sevens?

Sarajane Case (37:46)

Let's talk Eight.

Our strengths here are decisiveness, providing, protecting, leading, empowering others, calling people into their strength. And when that's used too much or unconsciously, it can look like defensiveness, trying to heal through strength instead of vulnerability. It can look like seeking intensity — picking fights, trying to get the energy up in a room.

And it can look like not letting other people lead. Having to be the strong one, having to be in charge — which prevents you from receiving care. If you have to be in charge, if you have to lead, if you have to protect, when are you protected? When are you led? When do you receive care?

The main thing here — there are really two parts. Number one: when it comes to receiving love, lead with vulnerability. And this feels so threatening to Eights because they haven't yet learned that relationships are safe. A lot of relationships probably haven't been safe. So pick one, start small, start to open up, let people in. And if you feel like you're trying to get an outcome and your first impulse is to say, "This is what I need, this is what I want, this is what's right" — how can you soften that? What's the vulnerability beneath it? What's the truth behind that truth? Yes, it's absolutely true that you deserve this, you need this, you want this, that it's right. But what's the more vulnerable truth underneath, that you're trying to protect with all that strength you're bringing forward? And can you express that directly?

A lot of times you're going to have an easier time in your relationships by expressing that more vulnerable, painful truth.

And then the second piece: when someone comes to you with feedback, start to laugh, and find some play in that part of you that wants to immediately tell them they're wrong. That part of you that wants to say, "No, that's wrong, that's bad, that's not true, that didn't happen" —

Tyler Zach (40:52)

Mm-hmm.

Sarajane Case (41:08)

Start to hear those words as a pattern, and catch yourself: whoa, okay, I see myself doing it. The healthiest Eights I know still do that, but they catch themselves sooner. And they go: whoa, okay, maybe there's some truth here. Pay attention to it from there, because your first defense is denial. So be conscious of that. When you start to deny, go inward and ask: is there some truth to this?

And there's nothing that looks more strong to a healthy, healed person than someone who's willing to be vulnerable. That is powerful. That is admirable. That's something that garners respect — which is all the things that strength is trying to achieve. And it's likely getting the opposite result in your relationships. It probably is working great for you at work —

Tyler Zach (40:52)

Mm-hmm.

Sarajane Case (41:08)

— or in other areas of your life. But in your more tender relationships, it's going to have the opposite effect that you intend. The more vulnerable you are, the more strong you are.

Tyler Zach (41:21)

Let's move to Nines.

Sarajane Case (41:22)

Let's talk Nine.

So our Nines — they're considerate, easygoing, very supportive, non-judgmental. They tend to be very gentle and safe for people. But the other side of that can come out as conflict avoidance. When we're avoiding conflict, we're not having the hard conversations that need to be had. That can come out sideways as irritation or passive aggressiveness — your partner kind of feeling like you're constantly irritated with them because there's a conversation that's not being had.

It can also look like not taking the extra steps to make someone feel special. Taking the path of least resistance and going, okay, yeah, everything's good in our relationship, everything's fine — and not really thinking about how to improve it, how to keep it thriving and flourishing.

The other thing that can happen here for Nines is a loss of self in the relationship — merging into the other person. Three-Nine is a really common combination. Threes champion people's ideas and passions, they push people forward. And Nines, often in this dynamic, may find themselves being pushed forward without even realizing if that's something they want.

Tyler Zach (42:20)

Hmm.

Sarajane Case (42:37)

So be conscious, Nines, in your relationships — make sure you know what you want, you know who you are. Take the conscious time to build a relationship with yourself, where you know yourself really well, so that your yes can be a yes, your no can be a no, and you can truly build a relationship based on two whole selves coming together, instead of merging into your partner.

And I think the subtypes are really vivid with Nines in relationships. Social Nines often will have really strong friendships, really strong work relationships, and have a harder time integrating their partner or family into that. Sexual Nines will almost fully merge with their partner. And self-pres Nines tend to be —

Tyler Zach (43:34)

Hmm.

Sarajane Case (43:42)

— kind of in their own little world with their own hobbies and activities, and may struggle more to really take care of the people they're in relationship with — to look for what they need, what they want, how to make sure they're taken care of and feeling special.

Tyler Zach (43:59)

Yeah, I think I just heard Beatrice Chestnut say that social Nines merge with their group, which can cause them to overlook their partner. Sexual Nines merge with a partner or loved one. And self-pres Nines, she said, merge with the couch. I thought that was kind of funny.

Sarajane Case (44:04)

Yeah. Yeah.

Tyler Zach (44:26)

We love Nines. We love you, Nines.

Sarajane Case (44:26)

It was funny. You do.

Tyler Zach (44:29)

I'm trying to think of what stood out to me the most — I think all of it is really helpful. But to realize that some relationships can feel a little too sharp, and sometimes for Nines it feels a little flat — just remembering to bring energy to the people you love, knowing that you'll get it back.

Sarajane Case (44:45)

Yeah. And there's no greater compliment to me than when a Nine tells me they're mad at me, or I've disappointed them, or I've let them down — because that means they feel safe with me. And that's all I could ask for.

So for those who are in relationship to a Nine: if they express anger with you, or say "this really upset me" — if you can receive that as a compliment, as a testament to love, and then meet them there, and make sure that's met well — you're encouraging them to keep expressing.

Tyler Zach (45:00)

Hmm. Yeah.

Sarajane Case (45:24)

It won't have to be so angry next time, because they'll be able to — you're building up safety for them to have incremental conflict.

Tyler Zach (45:32)

Amazing. So good.

Sarajane Case (45:34)

Yeah.

Tyler Zach (45:43)

If you benefited from this episode, please make sure to hit the like button, subscribe, and give us a five-star rating and write a review so that this content will be shared with more Enneagram enthusiasts like yourself.

But before you go, let me leave you with this: as you listened to your Enneagram type today, what's one thing that hasn't been serving your relationships well? And what's one step you can take to let that go this week? Remember, growth doesn't usually come from doing more. It often comes from noticing what's no longer serving you, and choosing to loosen your grip on it — one small step at a time.